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Greenhouse Thread
I know there's been some threads about greenhouses, but I don't find all that much to be honest, (plenty on Global Warming when searching greenhouse over in the GD section though!).
Anyway, i know a couple people mentioned them here and there recently, and it's what i've decided to work on this summer with all my coin money I cashed in!:wink: Who's got? Who's building now? Who can recommend a great book or has great plans that they've used (I ask please just don't google it and slap up some links here, we can all do that- I see a good amount of books and stuff on the web that I'm poring over, but I'd like some GIM experiences from those who can help, to help narrow it all down and find a definitive direction ). I'd like to know who has actually read a good book on it and can recommend it, or who has actually built one from plans they found (or winged it) and can share some actual tips and experinces. Offer some hindisghts too. Share your plans. Thoughts on materials you've used. Things you'd do differently. What NOT to do. I'd love to see pictures for anyone so inclined. Mine will be a pretty humble venture, but I like to do things right, and appreciate some good real world advice and insights. Thanks Gim! |
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I think the set up with parallel timbers placed on the ground with 2 inch holes drilled in them is nice and simple. The corrosponding holes receive abs pipe which is bent in a dome fashion. Once all the abs is installed it can be secured with a couple of braces lashed to them, end to end. Use 6 mil poly over the frame and voila. Ghetto greenhouse.
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The main purpose of this greenhouse was not a greenhouse, but a place to house the electrical gear/batteries for my solar install....the greenhouse part was secondary consideration, but one we are enjoying for sure. No plans.....I rarely ever use 'stock' plans, though I am quite proficient at the theft of ideas. I'll look at a lot of different things before I build, and then build my own version in my head at night when I should be sleeping so I have the basic plan down in my noggin before I start...then wing it from there. Basically, I started with a south facing slope, build a retainer wall into it, poured a twelve foot wide slab out from it 20' long ( far end is about a 30 degree angled wall from the main wall ), and added a 5x8 hunk of concrete slab on the west end for my electrical room. http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...1_p124825.jpeg Then I laid 4 courses of 8" cinder block up on the front (32" high ) for a 'kneewall'....then moved out and laid 3 courses + 4" cap out 2' from the inside kneewall, and filled it with dirt.....two reasons.....earth berm insulation, and a permanent raised bed of strawberries along the front. http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...1_p124826.jpeg With the block in place, I switched to treated lumber, and built trusses for the roof with the top slope about 30 degrees, and the front slope about 45 degrees....that simply "felt" like about the right angles for me. The truss is a treated 2x6 with a CCA treated 1/2" plywood plate screwed to both sides ( see pic ). The back of the truss on the sloped side sits on a wood kneewall on top the block retainer wall, that knee wall is about 24" tall....again, just made up the dimensions to fit the situation and give decent headroom inside. http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...1_p124827.jpeg ( those are the racks for the solar panels above and to the rear.....RichG got pressed into service helping me put those up. No free lunch here...ahahaha) Then I ordered 16mm tripple wall polycarbonate panels.....4'x8' for the top slope, and 4'x5' for the front slope. 5 of each came to 1400 bucks with shipping. I thought about using a bunch of sliding glass door panels I'd saved over the years for a greenhouse, but they are a LOTTTTTTT heavier, and harder to come up with a relatively rain tight roof....with the poly panels, they are fairly light, easy to work with ( you just drill a hole and run a metal roofing screw in ) and have a nice flashing pc that pops over the panel edges to seal them between panels.....very simple, tough, and the light diffusion inside you have to see to believe.....it's like it's 20% brighter INSIDE than outside.....and the R value beats glass all to pcs....so Poly panels it was, and I'd make that choice again. The roof area above the panels ( about 4' running back to the top ) is a standard plywood and shingle roof to match my house. Rest of the outside to be finished in a gray vinyl siding/soffit to match the trim area on my house. This is outside view...dead of winter....and looks it. The solar panels now installed on tracking racks. http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...1_p124831.jpeg Inside....earlier this spring. Inside view of front wall with tables built to hold plants. Wife has some of her geraniums she keeps from year to year, and one Roma tomato plant she had on the deck last year....which is now covered with new tomatoes. http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...1_p124829.jpeg The entry is just a standard aluminum storm door hung on a framed opening. The cardboard to the left of the door is because I forgot to order an extra poly panel for that end, so I just pick up a pc of glass locally cut to the angles needed and framed it in ( now installed ). View from inside looking to right side.....U shaped plant table, and you can see the electrical room on the far end.....now walled off with door....and the plant tables are all covered up with seedlings readying to go out to the garden. http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...1_p124830.jpeg I used a recording Hi/Lo thermometer in there this winter just to see what would happen with NO heat. Lowest temp was 39 degrees on a night we had 8 degrees here.....so I'm pleased with that. I ran a small propane heater in there after we got some seedlings started to keep the night temps up to 60-65, next year I plan to build a custom wood stove with a water storage tank for heat. I've also wired it for lights and receptacles since this pics were taken.....we use heating mats for propagation of seeds. We enjoy it so much, I now have plans to do another one. I have a south facing basement wall that is about 9' high on the lower side of the house....where I had always had a greenhouse in mind. I will cut a new walk-thru door from the basement, out, and build another about equal sized greenhouse there....come out about 12' and run down about 20....using poly panels again on a framed roof. The advantage of this one will be just inside the basement is a wood stove I can also use to heat the greenhouse, or pipe my hydronic heating system into it ( wood fired also ). |
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Wow....makes my patio fire pit project seem trivial....
Thanks for knocking the wind out of my sails!!!! Great pics Andy - nice job. |
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have a 20' by 48' foot greenhouse. will post pics tomorrow. just finishing it up.
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Hey ruprick....a journey of a thousand miles starts with one fire pit :biggrin:
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What is in the end opposite the battery room? It is also covered by solid roofing....why not green house on that end as well? Did I mis it in your comments?
Just looked again....I think i figured it out....it is an angled wall on that end.......triangular roof panel there.... |
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The east end is roofed over because it was easier to do that due to the odd angle of the roof/wall underneath. From the outside ( the dog pic ) it looks like more area than it actually is because the roof over hangs the wall about 2'.
We use that as a work area with a potting bench and storage of dirt, peat pots, etc, so glazing wasn't really necessary. My wife asked the same thing as I was building it, and I was pretty sure the amount of glazing going it would make the room quite bright. As usual, I was 100% correct. :biggrin: |
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You rock Andy. That's more than I have room, or resources for, but it gives me an idea or three. Thank you. Probably be closer to half that than not.
Let me ask- about how steep is the hill you built to, before you leveled that area, and is it due south facing? I have a real steep hill in the back, probably goes up at 55 or 60 degrees I'd guess, so not much to be done with it otherwise. It forms a kinda crescent shape around back the property but I'd have to cheat at least some to SE to go that route. PS - strawberries bed in the berm was just a perfect finishing touch too. |
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Tn, I am going to be pouring concrete in a barn (for the floor) that is 30' by 30' soon. do you have any good advice? have done smaller things, but nothing near this size.
Thanks. |
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Andy, Nice job!
I bet you draw DEA surveillance with that beauty.:bear_tongue: |
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Geez, Andy.
I'm going to go into my dictionary and cut out the definition of "industrious" and paste your picture in its place! Seriously, you've been busy! First is was sawmill envy and now I have greenhouse envy! Anyway, I haven't built one of these (yet) but have been thinking about it for some time. There is a lot of good ideas and things to consider when building a greenhouse at http://growingspaces.com. And yes, I admit it. I have a dome fetish. :36_1_34: |
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I have been dumpster diving for windows, sliding doors and lumber for a while now in anticipation of building a greenhouse. I have a lot of stuff waiting.
I am wondering how your food turns out with only south facing sun? I was under the impression that plants need the other side of the slope as well, or does the sun run parallel with your greenhouse? |
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Wow Tn.Andy That is some awesome shit. That is very similar to the whole 'earthship' design.....Very nice project. :36_1_32v:
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I'm available to go anywhere once you clear it with my wife.....and good luck on that....ahahahahaaaaa....
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Yeah....you know what they say about real estate....location, location, location....ahahahaaaa......... |
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I assume you're gonna have help....if not, plan on it. I'd have 3 people at least for 900sqft......two at a BARE minimum, and then I'd split the pour in two sections and different days. Make sure your forms are ROCK solid....nothing worse than trying to repair a form that breaks out in the middle of a pour. Make sure you've thought out any water/electrical/etc that needs to go in first.....much easier on the front end than later. I like to use metal "keyway" expansion joint material on the inside.....for a 30x30 slab, I'd probably cut it up into 3 -- 10x30 parcels with the keyway strips as a form and a way to screet the concrete level ( or to the slope you want ). The keyway stays in after it's poured and keeps you from having to go back and saw a control joint. Nice stuff... looks like this: http://www.bometals.com/images/details_newq.jpg I get mine at a local concrete supply place. You get the stakes with it, drive them in, and simply hammer the keyway form to the top of the stake....I also run a few self tapping metal screws in to keep it from getting knocked off during pouring.... How to install, go here. Then, if you want a decent smooth finish, rent a power troweling machine, and use that. Again, 900sf is a LOT to hand finish.....even if you are experienced at when to hit it. A power trowel will let you work it without it "getting away from you" ( and the concrete setting too much ). I don't think much of the fiber added stuff....waste of money IMHO. I like traditional rebar and wire mesh. Good luck with your pour....1/2 the work is planning it right. |
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In Florida we have unique issues. Obviously we do not dip below freezing that often; however, I am trying to grow some tropical plants like Coffee (hybridized for Florida) and Bananas for an example. The plants can't really get below 50 degrees.
The other problem with Florida is we have hurricanes, so our greenhouses have to be able to withstand 100+ mph winds. In a sense the green house may have to double as a plant-bunker in storms at the same time suffice for "normal" green house functions. Andy, I like you use of cinder block walls and of course exposed roof. This might work for both purposes in Florida. Thank you for sharing! Dave |
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TN..Andy THat is one nice looking project...nice use of splitface block etc...well done on the rafters etc...judging from the workmanship looks like you did a fine job on those blocks..that is a very impressive use of land, space, very nice looking splitface block.
I am curious the long highside wall which acts as a retaining wall, did you end up filling those blocks? i see what appears to be some pilasters, have you had any issues with that wall...water...cracking..anything you would do different?? I have some hillsides that could use some treatments like that Thx |
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Tazz...
I did fill the block on the back wall with concrete....and they are 12" block. No problems with cracking or whatever. I actually had the wall laid a year before the greenhouse when up. I need to get up on the hillside now and get something growing like the rug junipers I have below the greenhouse and on around the retainer wall above the driveway to keep the water run off to a minimum. Dave: Don't know how you'd plan for a hurricane, not knowing which way the wind might come. We get our worst wind from the west, and the mountain up behind the house blocks most of it. I can hear it howl like a freight train up on the mountain, and we will just be getting some 15-20mph gusts down here. Wind just isn't an issue here. |
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Andy,
Great point on the wind direction. I was going to dive in to that on my last post but unfortunately hurricanes are somewhat unpredictable. As you know hurricanes turn counter clockwise in the northern hemisphere so that means there are several possible wind directions based on the approach. The real killer about hurricanes is the wind direction change after you reach the midpoint in the storm. You could prepare for a wind that comes from the Northeast but the minute the storm is half past your winds will be coming from the Southwest. That being said, the only thing that makes any sense to me is some sort of octagon or circular design that will deflect the wind and combat the horizontal shear associated with the high winds. Obviously an octagon design would probably be easier using cinder block for the first 3' to 4' of wall and the use some sort of transparent/insulated material that would hold up against the wind or perhaps have some sort of pre-built and fitted shutters you could apply prior to the storm. Either way you look at it, the hurricane part of the equation kind of throws a monkey wrench in to things. Ok, so you ask why do I worry about this? Well it is simple. One day, I might not be able to simply go to the hardware store or plant nursery to replenish my destroyed green house and maybe even more importantly my loss of food production. I am just trying to think ahead to a time where proper construction techniques could mean life or death. Dave |
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Building a greenhouse to defy hurricanes in Fla. isn't cost effective.
The majority of commercial greenhouse growers in florida use mostly 'poly' coverings, which they take down in the spring and apply again in the late fall. |
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I built a 12'x12' greenhouse house last year.
I used recycled 3/4" rigid conduit, 2"x2" cedar for the roof and wall frame. Recycled crank out windows on north wall and used aluminum storm door on south wall. Clear double walled acrylic 4'x8' panels for roof and south wall. Free double pane windows on east wall. Free ext. MDO plywd. on west wall. Gravel floor. 6 food grade 55 gal barrels for thermal mass. East side has a permanent 40"x12' insulated grow bed. The Boc Choi and Broccoli did well this winter. Last fall we had peppers in containers that really thrived in the heat, 90+ degree. even on a cool 40 degree but sunny day. Total cost was $500 mostly for the clear panels and extruded alum. panel connections. I highly recomend GREENHOUSE GARDNERS COMPANION, Shane Smith. Growers Supply.com for green house materials. Good luck |
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Pictures from late this afternoon.
Looking in the door to the east wall: http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...1_p124833.jpeg Tomato plant was left over from last year...it's got about 25 green tomatoes on it right now. Outside front also looking east: http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...1_p124834.jpeg In foreground, some forscythia cuttings my wife is trying to root, little patch of spinach behind those cuttings, then strawberries, and lettuce at the far end. More strawberries to the right, with some sticks in them to keep the dogs out. |
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Tn....That is the most kick butt greenhouse I have seen as of yet. My wife wants me to build her something, I was thinking of a 8' X 10' with the plastic green siding!
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pouring and finishing concrete is very unforgiving to the un-experienced when concrete starts setting its to late to learn or cure your mistakes my advice would be similar to Andys....you can take your time and get everything ready...forms...base...rebar..mesh...keyway....etc Take your time and get the prep work right.....then hire someone to do the actual pour and finish a couple of experienced finishers isnt that expensive for a half day 900sq ft is to much for one in-experienced man to do right I would also talk to the concrete company about what mix of concrete you need to use and how to cure the concrete....for example concrete mixes can be different depending on if the concrete is exterior vs interior etc, and they can explain proper concrete curing methods you can use |
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